Food Nerd Approved - Discussion

Details and discussion about the FNA program
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Skillet Doux
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I'm totally open to that, Emma... what do you think would be the best place to put them? They could be moved into the Valley Eats forum, or their contents could be merged with existing threads, just to name a couple of thoughts off the top of my head. They might even get more play in the Valley Eats forum.

(They're not gone... I've got 'em.)
Dominic Armato
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golbsalt
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How about a 'Runners Up' that we hope to see make the FNA list next year? Emma, I understand your concerns and frustrations, but cannot agree with your assertion that the choice was one of poor stewardship.

Can you show us another similar board moderated as even-handedly or with the degree of interest in promoting discussion? Or more on point, one that you feel is an example better stewardship?
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MyLifeOnVacatio
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I like the idea of merging into the existing threads. The info would be very easy to locate that way.
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Skillet Doux
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Emma raises an excellent point, I'm glad she did, and I take zero offense... defense appreciated, but not at all necessary, golbsalt :-)

I should've thought that through some more, Emma. It wasn't to squelch disagreement -- I LOVE disagreement :-) -- I was thinking of it more as a matter of courtesy to the nominees that didn't end up on the final list, and also as a way of keeping the FNA forum as a very clean, concise list that can be easily linked to as a reference. But I think you're right, hiding those posts isn't the best way to deal with that. I'm sure we can come up with a better idea. Anybody have any thoughts on the best way to reintegrate them?
Dominic Armato
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Skillet Doux
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BTW, I take full responsibility on that one. That wasn't a group discussion, it was my call alone.
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themis
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Can I say - and I may be wrong here, but it just wouldn't be right unless I argued every last point into the ground - but it looks weird to refer to the list as the 2013 FNAs. Sure, the award comes out in 2013, but these were the places that best fit the group's spirit in 2012. Obvs the restaurants prefer a plaque that shows the current year so the incoming guests see this as a topical, hot and hip spot, but I find it a little jarring. It's like, '2013 FNA-!!' -- wait, what? 2013 just started.
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Skillet Doux
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themis wrote:Can I say - and I may be wrong here, but it just wouldn't be right unless I argued every last point into the ground - but it looks weird to refer to the list as the 2013 FNAs. Sure, the award comes out in 2013, but these were the places that best fit the group's spirit in 2012. Obvs the restaurants prefer a plaque that shows the current year so the incoming guests see this as a topical, hot and hip spot, but I find it a little jarring. It's like, '2013 FNA-!!' -- wait, what? 2013 just started.
That mmmmmight be difficult to reverse at this point for various reasons.
Dominic Armato
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golbsalt
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I completely agreed with Emma's point, and would have been completely fine with the post had it not gone to the point of accusing you poor stewardship. Was it your choice to make, absolutely. But poor stewardship? Stewardship is about a pattern of behavior, a series of decisions. And, I'm hard pressed to see the validity of that. Maybe there's a point for it that hasn't been clearly made yet.

And while I also understand and agree with the need for disagreement in the fostering of discussion, I am also a big fan of the fact that the community here seems to work hard at maintaining the dignity of others. No need for disrespect here.

Maybe the point could have been made without throwing in the accusation?
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Skillet Doux
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I understand where you're coming from, but let's focus on figuring out the best way to reintegrate those threads.

Three thoughts that spring to mind:
  • We could move the nomination threads as-is to the Valley Eats forum. That divides the discussion a little bit, but there are worse outcomes, I think.
  • We could merge the nomination threads with the regular threads (where they exist). That might make the flow of some threads a little funny, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe a small mod note that it was merged from the nomination thread would help.
  • We could move the nomination threads to the Valley Eats forum, lock them, then add a post in the regular thread noting that the restaurant was nominated for an FNA with a link to the nomination thread.
Thoughts? Other suggestions? I'm kind of liking option 3 at the moment... it keeps the nomination thread sort of preserved in amber and easily accessible from the regular thread or a search without interrupting the flow. But maybe that's not much better than putting it on the shelf? I don't know.
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golbsalt
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I like option 3 if there was a way to put it at the top of the thread, like the entire FNA series was. Then both threads are preserved intact under one Valley Eats forum. It gives recognition to the fact that the place was nominated - FNA Nominated and FNA Approved might be great moderator tags to be added along with the "year" those events occurred. That might also (or not) help address themis concern about the year?
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golbsalt
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The FNA Nominated and FNA Approved moderator tags would also allow you to include the Approved threads into the existing Valley Eats thread for each place as well, though some might see that as a duplication of content, i like the fact that it makes both threads available under the establishments thread if that makes sense?
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golbsalt
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What's more, additional years could be added in the 'above' area that would show FNA Nominated or FNA Approved like so:

Restaurant X

2013 FNA Nominated (discussion thread)
2014 FNA Approved (discussion thread)
2015 FNA Approved (discussion thread)


Running thread for Restaurant X as originally added to PHXfoodnerds.com
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emmaAmethyst
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Goodness. You'll note that what I typed was : "To take those threads & effectively throw them away does not demonstrate good stewardship." As in "It would be an act of poor stewardship if those threads were thrown away." That isn't an accusation -- that's a statement of where I consider a line to be. Dom hadn't thrown them away -- he "put them in cold storage". Dom appears to have read my sentence as I intended it. And he's looking for a better solution.

OK, so back to the question of "what's a good handling ..."
golbsalt wrote:I completely agreed with Emma's point, and would have been completely fine with the post had it not gone to the point of accusing you poor stewardship. Was it your choice to make, absolutely. But poor stewardship? Stewardship is about a pattern of behavior, a series of decisions. And, I'm hard pressed to see the validity of that. Maybe there's a point for it that hasn't been clearly made yet.

And while I also understand and agree with the need for disagreement in the fostering of discussion, I am also a big fan of the fact that the community here seems to work hard at maintaining the dignity of others. No need for disrespect here.

Maybe the point could have been made without throwing in the accusation?
emmaAmethyst
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Yeah, I'd say the nomination threads should absolutely appear in the Valley Eats forum. It would be reasonable to put an admin post at the end of the thread saying something to the effect of "FNA Approved 2013 winner". (I'm not sure I'm thrilled about the word "winner", which implies that there are "losers", but whatever.) Yeah, lock the thread in the Valley Eats forum, & extend the thread title to be something like "FNA 2013 Nomination: xxx". Cross linkages both ways between any applicable existing threads would be good, if not too much of a pain in the tushie.

I don't think there's a reasonable way in EZboard-land to double-link a thread in 2 forums, but, if the threads are to live in the Valley Eats forum, you could establish linkage threads in the historical record of the FNA forum over to the VE forum.

FYI, I think one of my big criteria is about search results -- I would want a search for restaurant xxx in Valley Eats to return all of the main threads, the FNA nominations, & mentions in other topics.
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Skillet Doux
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emmaAmethyst wrote:(I'm not sure I'm thrilled about the word "winner", which implies that there are "losers", but whatever.)
Same here. I've tried (hopefully successfully) never to use the words "winner" or "award," not to try to wear kid gloves, but just because that isn't what it's about. It isn't a competition.
emmaAmethyst wrote:Yeah, lock the thread in the Valley Eats forum, & extend the thread title to be something like "FNA 2013 Nomination: xxx". Cross linkages both ways between any applicable existing threads would be good, if not too much of a pain in the tushie.
No, that's very doable and not a big deal at all. The only thing I'm unsure of is how easy/possible it would be to have those links at the top of the thread, as golbsalt suggested, or if they'd have to stay in chronological order whenever I posted them, but I'll look into it.
emmaAmethyst wrote:I don't think there's a reasonable way in EZboard-land to double-link a thread in 2 forums, but, if the threads are to live in the Valley Eats forum, you could establish linkage threads in the historical record of the FNA forum over to the VE forum.
Sort of. Ghost topics present as a regular thread (with a slightly different icon) but link directly over to a thread in a different area. That's one thing I'm reluctant to do, though. Right now, the forum IS the list. If we toss ghost topics in there for the ones that didn't make the final list, then the FNA forum is a mix of all nominees, which is something I was hoping to avoid. Unless you meant that the ones that are on the final list should move over to the Valley Eats forum as well? I dunno... I think it's kind of nice to have those threads standing on their own to further highlight them, and they'll turn up in a search just the same as the rest of the board.
Dominic Armato
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Skillet Doux
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I want to hold off for a day so that people have a chance to weigh in if they'd like, but tomorrow night I'll give something a try and we can see how it works. Any other suggestions, by all means, keep them coming.
Dominic Armato
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ScottofStrand
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I'm not sure if it's already been suggested as many of these suggestions overlap, but I think i'd like to have it arranged like this:

Board Index>
Food Nerd Approved 2013:
Food Nerd Approved 2013 List!
Food Nerd Approved 2013 Nominees:
(All the nomination threads listed here)
Eventually Food Nerd Approved 2014:

Valley Eats:
Restaurant Post:
-link to Food Nerd Approved 2013 Nominee thread in the first post
-(this restaurant is great yada yada post)
-restaurant info

-(more posts!)


It makes sense to my brain to keep all the FNA posts in one neat folder, and then just post links back to them in their Valley Eats threads. Is the issue that the sentiments in the threads wouldn't be posted in the main body of the Valley Eats post, or is there something else i'm not understanding?
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BarbaraToombs
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For what it's worth, I like Scott's suggestion above. I would certainly like to know (or be reminded) from the get-go that a particular establishment was either nominated or was the recipient of an FNA designation, rather than wading through a whole thread to find that out...
themis
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Ditto. I'd like a place where all the year's nominees are accessible. Threads can be retitled to reflect status, with maybe even FNAs bolded or iconned to make them stand out.
cactuschowdah
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I will add to the chorus of dittos- I think Scott's suggestion, or reasonable facsimile thereof, is the most logical- not sure how much labor that is for you, Dom...